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IDFEB89

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Articles Posted: 0  Links Seeded: 344
Member Since: 11/2008  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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Israel, Syria, and the double standards of the Free World - Haaretz Israeli News source.

Seeded on Wed Feb 8, 2012 9:07 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: Haaretz
world-news, israel, middle-east, gaza, democracy, syria, west-bank, assad, idf, ehud-barak, peace-process, double-standards
Seeded by IDFeb89
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I have for years opposed Israel’s occupation of the West Bank, and I continue to be appalled by Israel’s continuing expansion of settlements. But I'm running into a linguistic problem: if I use ‘appalled’ for Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, what term is left for Assad’s butchering of his own people for almost a year?

It would be of great importance for Israel’s more one-sided critics to acknowledge, once in a while, that Israel is located in a pretty rough neighborhood. Israel’s citizens would feel a bit more understood, if these critics were to express sympathy for Israel’s genuine, if flawed, attempt to maintain a liberal democracy in the midst of regimes that often commit outrageous crimes against humanity. At times, when I hear some of the critical comments on Israel, one might think that Israel is Belgium, and that for unintelligible reasons it keeps attacking helpless Luxembourg.

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  • Public Discussion (13)
IDFeb89

I assume that some of my readers might be surprised to read this blog post and wonder: has he finally snapped? Has he gone over to the right?

The answer is no: my positions have remained essentially the same: I think that Israel’s post-1967 policies have been a disaster, and I think that Ben-Gurion was right in predicting that holding on to the territories would endanger Israel’s future. But, given the situation since the Second Intifada, I continue to think that the fears of ordinary Israelis are quite understandable.

Most Israelis are not ideological right-wingers. To this day two-thirds of Israel’s Jews believe that the two-state solution is the only chance for peace. But they are afraid to move ahead with it: what will happen if we go for the two-state solution, and Hamas, vowing to destroy Israel, will come to power again?

They want assurances that scenarios like the shelling of southern Israel will not be repeated in Israel’s heartland; and nobody can give such assurances as long as Hamas doesn’t explicitly renounce armed struggle against Israel and recognize Israel’s legitimacy.

Israeli political landscape changed dramatically since Arafat turned down Ehud Barak's offer, deciding to start the second Intifada instead.

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 9:10 AM EST
IDFeb89

But watching the utter horror of Assad’s genocidal actions, it becomes understandable why many Israelis feel that indeed the world is applying a double standard; that the condemnation of Israel and that of the countries around it are in no proportion with each other.

I wish nothing more than an Israel that conforms to the moral standard of the Free World. But even here there is a certain amount of double standard: Israel’s targeted killings of terrorist suspects are often attacked as outrageous. But Obama, a leader whom I greatly respect, has approved of targeted killings at a scale never even envisaged by Israel, and I haven’t heard much protest. For some reason it seems quite acceptable if the drones killing members of al-Qaida in Yemen are directed from Langley, Virginia, whereas drones killing those planning terror attacks in Israel are criticized if they are directed from Tel Aviv.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 9:24 AM EST
Hippocrates of Cos

I wish nothing more than an Israel that conforms to the moral standard of the Free World. But even here there is a certain amount of double standard: Israel’s targeted killings of terrorist suspects are often attacked as outrageous. But Obama, a leader whom I greatly respect, has approved of targeted killings at a scale never even envisaged by Israel, and I haven’t heard much protest

I don't see a double here. While I object to all forms of assassination, believing the courts are the back bone to society, that's not really why Israel is getting slammed for it. Their motives are understandable, but their methods are often intolerable. For instance, Israel targeted Salah Shahade using a one ton bomb dropped by the IAF in a densely populated neighborhood of Gaza City. 15 people were killed, including Shahade, his wife and 9 children. Another 50 were injured as the result of the attack (source). After this incident 27 active, reserve and retired IAF pilots, declared their unwillingness to carry out further operations in densely populated areas in Palestinian territories (source).

  • 4 votes
#2.1 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:30 PM EST
Hippocrates of Cos

But watching the utter horror of Assad’s genocidal actions, it becomes understandable why many Israelis feel that indeed the world is applying a double standard;

The UN will condemn, but will take no action. The previous being vague it can describe the UN's position on Israel and/or Syria. In that sense there isn't a double standard. All it does is show how impotent the UN is.

  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:39 PM EST
IDFeb89

As opposed to the zero to very little outrage about the hundreds (if not thousands) of civilians killed by the U.S, Nato, you mean? the double standard is obvious. it's obvious on the Vine as well - the Syria seeds are getting (for the most part) a surprising, low traffic. one can only imagine the kind of attention they would have gotten if Israel were somehow involved...

  • 6 votes
#2.3 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:49 PM EST
Hippocrates of Cos

As opposed to the zero to very little outrage about the hundreds (if not thousands) of civilians killed by the U.S, Nato, you mean?

There is plenty of outrage for civilian deaths, such as in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya for starters. Some will use it to attack the American government's credibility, others will say it is just collateral damage. While those were modern example, this goes back decades; from the unknown millions in Vietnam to the bombing of Japan, America gets plenty of shjt heeped upon her.

the Syria seeds are getting (for the most part) a surprising, low traffic.

Probably because not many on the vine cares about Syria, whether positive or negative news. But there is still plenty of outrage about Assad's tactics against civilians in the world, even if Russia seems to be letting Assad act with impunity.

one can only imagine the kind of attention they would have gotten if Israel were somehow involved...

Syria got loads of attention a year ago, but with the lack of action (no oil) by the UN such has probably stalled conversation on the Vine. But as I said, the lack of action toward Syria by the International Community is the same as the lack of action toward Israel. In that sense there is no double standard. The big difference is no one on the Vine has voiced support for Assad's attacks against civilians, while Israel has plenty of supporters that will defend/justify Israel's actions blindly. I have come to respect you because you take a very balanced approach to this conflict where, in contrast, many others only want to condemn or congratulate Israel.

  • 5 votes
#2.4 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 8:54 PM EST
krishna-167929

The Syria seeds are getting (for the most part) a surprising, low traffic. one can only imagine the kind of attention they would have gotten if Israel were somehow involved...

The rule of thumb is that,generally speaking, no one really cares if Arabs are killed-- when the perps are other Arabs.

However, if even a single American or Israeli kill an Arab (even if its by accident) there is a thunderstorm of outrage for days on end!

  • 3 votes
#2.5 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:31 AM EST
Hippocrates of Cos

The rule of thumb is that,generally speaking, no one really cares if Arabs are killed-- when the perps are other Arabs.

That's a horrible thing to say. I'm not sure where you found this "rule of thumb", but it says more about you than anything else.

  • 3 votes
#2.6 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:32 AM EST
pjwbur

Unfortunately, Krishna, that is too often the truth. It is a sad commentary on how cheaply they view each others' lives. Too often their blood thirst towards each other is shrugged off by outsiders as "just another day in the Arab world", instead of being viewed with the disgust and outrage it should cause.

This says more about "us" than "them".

  • 2 votes
#2.7 - Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:01 PM EST
Reply
Hippocrates of Cos

Thanks for the seed.

  • 6 votes
Reply#3 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:40 PM EST
pjwbur

Great seed, IDF. However, it appears Mr. Stenger is getting the point a little late.

  • 3 votes
Reply#4 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:40 PM EST
IDFeb89

Hippocrates of Cos

pjwbur

Thanks.

getting the point a little late.

A tad late, but at least he's getting it...

  • 6 votes
#4.1 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:51 PM EST
Reply
Global Crier

I think Carlo Strenger got the story pretty much right. The reason you have not heard much protest in America is because they are removed from the drone attacks as well as being ignorant. Thinking this is part of the greater war on terror. Little do they know how many enemies we make for everyone that is killed. If we were doing drone attacks on the Mexican border in our war on drugs or immigration. I think it would be seen in a different light. David

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 5:47 PM EST
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